The MYSTERY of the TIMELESSNESS in History of Jesus Christ as God/Man Resolved

Isaiah 57:15a For thus says the high and lofty One {the ONLY true living loving God} — He {the Godhead} Who inhabits {resides in} eternity {an ERA without beginning nor end thus making the Godhead ETERNAL}, Whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, {of the Third Heaven}… AMP

 

INTRODUCTION:

Ever since I was first saved {1973}, I have always firmly believed that Jesus Christ has always had TWO eternal natures of being God/Man. I thought almost ALL other believers thought the same, but as I share my faith I find that way too many Christian believers do NOT believe #1 that He {Jesus Christ} has always ETERNALLY been GOD/MAN, #2 He recognized and claimed Himself to be ETERNALLY GOD/MAN, and #3 that Scripture claims Him to be ETERNALLY GOD/MAN. I pray that by using the Bible, I will Scripturally prove these three assumptions to you as TRUE in this paper.

I believe way too many Christians have numerous erroneous thoughts and beliefs about exactly Who God the Father and about Who God the Son/God the Son of Man Jesus Christ truly are, Their TIMELESSNESS/ETERNALITY, and WHEN They became active in history. The Christian cults {plus other religions} do NOT believe that Jesus Christ is God! I believe this error in their faith ETERNALLY condemns them to Hell! Others may believe that Christ has always been God in Spirit, but that He did NOT become a Man until He was born of Mary some 2000 years ago. This paper will Scripturally prove their faith to be in error! Are they ETERNALLY condemned to Hell also? I have come to strongly believe these are errors in our core faith and in our thinking that will cause us to have “salvation issues” upon our death. I believe we MUST correct these errors in our faith and thinking to have eternal life with God!!! Jesus Christ said that anyone who does NOT believe that He is Who He claims to be will die in their sins {John 8:24}! I believe this is an extremely important issue so PLEASE CAREFULLY READ AND STUDY THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURES SO YOU CAN SEE WHY I BELIEVE AS I DO. I do NOT want anyone to be eternally separated from God in Hell!!! And I am talking eternity/forever for the rest of time and history! This is NO JOKE!!!

 

PART I – The Godhead’s Ministry in the ERA BEFORE Creation and Time.

 

CHAPTER 1 – What does the Bible tell us about God the Father, God the Son, God the Son of Man Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit?

PLEASE remember to allow Them to have Their eternal nature – for Them to be Who the Scriptures claim Them to be for ALL of ETERNITY:

Malachi 3:6a {God speaking} For I am the Lord, I do not change;…AMP

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ (the Messiah) {Who is also God The Son of Man} is [always] the same, yesterday, today, [yes] and forever (to the ages) {And He is also as unchanging as God. We must allow Him to be Who He ETERNALLY is!}. AMP

From the preceding Scriptures, I believe it is imperative that we MUST realize and accept that Whoever Jesus was when He was on earth some 2000 years ago, He always was, and He will always be because He is UNCHANGING as God/Man

1. e.  He has NO BEGINGING NOR END nor does He change because He is ETERNAL!!! He MUST follow His Father’s plans for Him!!! Do NOT allow the presence of TIME and HISTORY to confuse this issue!

Let’s have some “food for thought.” Why cannot God change? If you can put into perspective God’s ministry in the ERA BEFORE creation when ONLY the Godhead was present and the HUGE NUMBER of plans that God the Father made for His creation during this period possibly billions of years ago, you can understand why God is unchanging. It is similar to the game “Jenga” where we build a tall structure containing many individual removable wooden blocks that we try to individually remove BEFORE it collapses. To me, this is very similar to the tremendous amount of plans God made for His creation, and then He would try to make changes in some of them. Because there are such a huge number of foreknown and predestined plans, if God would just try to make a few changes to His plans, they ALL would implode! THANK GOODNESS, THIS IS NOT HOW GOD WORKS!!! ALL OF HIS THOUGHTS, PLANS, AND WORKS – HIS MINNISTRIES ARE ETERNAL!!!

What does the ETERNAL Godhead look like? The Amplified Bible along with my {thoughts} explains it well! Because there is NO beginning nor end in ETERNITY in which the ETERNAL ERA existed {and still exists} before creation and time came into being in the Book of Genesis, I believe the word “beginning” is used for our purpose to designate a point in history that is the start of something. Carefully STUDY ALL OF THE PERSONS in the Godhead to see Them as God! My thoughts are contained within these brackets {}:

John 1:1-2 IN THE beginning {in the eternal ERA} [before all time] {this includes the Book of Genesis} was the Word (the man Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God {the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit}, and the Word {the Son of Man Jesus Christ} was God Himself.  [Isa 9:6.] 2 He {God the Son AND God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} was present originally with God {the Father and God the Holy Spirit making up the Godhead}. AMP

I must stop here to take a look at the term “TRINITY” as I compare it to the term “GODHEAD.” Trinity is a man made concept representing three Persons – God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as ONE God. The word “TRINITY” is NOT found in the Bible! The word “GODHEAD” IS found in the Bible 2-4 different places in the New Testament depending on the translation. Some think the word “GODHEAD” supposedly means “TRINITY,” BUT if we carefully examine the above text of John 1:1-2, I believe I see FOUR Persons represented as God! How many do you see? Study this text to make up your mind.

To me, the Word {Who is God the Son of Man JESUS CHRIST} thus makes Him part of a FOUR Person Godhead. I believe that for whatever reason, Jesus Christ has NOT been given His FULL recognition as God/Man throughout history!!! This is why there is so much ignorance and confusion by so many Christians about Who and What He TRULY is! As you read through this paper, you will find that I am extremely concerned about what I call our “salvation issue.” Jesus stated that IF we do NOT recognize and give Him FULL credit for Who He claimed to be, we will die in our sins {John 8:24}. I am NOT a Theologian! But I am a Bible teacher!

I know the Scripture that states that anyone who calls on the Name of the Lord shall be saved – Romans 10:13. Am I hollering “wolf” to frighten people or is this a legitimate spiritual concern? Let’s continue on:

A further description of God the Son of Man Jesus Christ is found in:

Philippians 2:5-7 {Jesus’ conversion} Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:] 6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, 7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. 8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! AMP

• Isaiah 9:6 For to us a Child {a Man} is born, to us a {physical} Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity] {Names for a Spiritual Being – God}, Prince of Peace {as a Man}.  [Isa 25:1; 40:9-11; Matt 28:18; Luke 2:11.] AMP
• Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me

{by My Father. When did all of this happen? In the ERA BEFORE CREATION and TIME – Hebrews 1:2-3} AMP

 

ADDENDUM

The next paragraphs and their Scriptures ARE EXTREMELY RELIVENT AND IMPORTANT TO THIS PAPER!!! I am going to resolve the issue of the TIMELESSNESS of Jesus Christ as GOD AND MAN throughout history. Many Christians erroneously believe that Jesus Christ FIRST became a living “MAN” when He was born of Mary. I will Scripturally prove that Jesus Christ has eternally been GOD and MAN!

I will include what the prophet Micah declared in his prophecy about God the Son of Man Jesus Christ and His origin/previous existence some 700 years BEFORE Christ’s birth. Then I will add the testimony of Jesus’ cousin John about Jesus and His physical birth, and then I will finish with Jesus’ own testimony about Himself. I believe it really cannot get much clearer than this! From:

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you are little to be among the clans of Judah; [yet] out of you shall One {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} come forth for Me {God the Father} Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).  [Gen 49:10; Matt 2:5-12; John 7:42.] AMP The AMP Bible adds the period of “ETEERNITY” which is Jesus’ true origin as BOTH God{John 1:1-2 Isa 57:15a}/Man!

• John 7:42 Does not the Scripture tell us that the {Man} Christwill come from the offspring of David and from Bethlehem, the village where David lived?  [Ps 89:3,4; Mic 5:2.] AMP

I will now include Jesus’ physical birth. John His cousin was physically six months older than Jesus. Here is John’s testimony which I believe CONFIRMED Micah’s prophecy! PLEASE compare and understand what they BOTH said about the eternal history of Jesus:

John 1:15 John testified about Him {Jesus Christ} and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority {greater significance} over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did {as God/Man}. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.] AMP

• John 1:30 {John speaking} This is He {Jesus Christ} of Whom I said, After me comes a Man {Jesus Christ} Who has priority over me [Who takes rank above me] because He was before me and existed before I did {as God/Man}. AMP

Jesus’ OWN testimony about Himself confirms BOTH Micah’s prophecy and John’s testimony. I do NOT believe it can get much clearer than this!!!:

John 8:23 He {Jesus} said to them, You are from below; I am from above {My Father’s Kingdom in the Third Heaven.}. You are of this world (of this earthly order); I am not of this world. AMP

END ADDENDUM

 

Continuing on. I also believe God the Father has the SAME FORM of a Man as does God the Son of Man Jesus Christ. You may NOT think so! Why is this important? I believe we MUST know as much about the Godhead as possible!!! Follow the personal male pronouns about God the Father:

Exodus 33:20-23 But, He {God the Father}said {to Moses}, You can not see My face, for no man shall see Me and live. 21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place beside Me, and you shall stand upon the rock, 22 And while My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will take away My hand and you shall see My back {image}; but My face shall not be seen. {Please notice God the Father’s use of capitalized human male pronouns in describing Himself. More on this later.} AMP

I believe Jesus has the same spiritual image and human likeness/form as God His Father. Is this hard for you to accept about the Father AND the Son?:

John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father? AMP

Jesus testifies that no one has ever seen the God the Father except Him as God/ Man. Please notice the use of capitalized human male pronouns in describing God the Father:

John 1:18 {Follow the use of capitalized human male pronouns for the Father} No {mortal} man has ever seen God {the Father} at any time; the only unique Son {unique because He is God/Man}, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He {Jesus} has revealed Him {the Father} and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].  [Prov 8:30.] AMP

John 6:46 {Notice the use of capitalized human male pronouns for the Son} Which does not imply that anyone has seen the Father [not that anyone has ever seen Him] except He [Who was with the Father {God the Son/God Son of Man Jesus Christ. When?}] Who comes from {the} God{/head}; He [alone] has seen the Father. AMP

Proverbs 8:30 Then I [Wisdom] {Jesus} was beside Him {John 1:1-2 God the Father} as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always, [Matt 3:17; John 1:2,18.] AMP

1 Corinthians 1:24 But to those who are called, whether Jew or Greek (Gentile), Christ [is] the Power of God and the Wisdom of God. AMP

When do you think God the Son of Man Jesus Christ first came into history? I firmly believe He has existed ETERNALLY as God/Man in the Godhead including the ERA BEFORE the Book of Genesis! Listen to the testimony of God the Father:

Hebrews 1:3 He {God the Son/God the Son of Man Jesus Christ Who} is the sole expression of the glory of God {the Father} [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God’s] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} had by offering Himself {on the Cross} accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty {God the Father} on high, AMP

Hebrews 1:8 But as to the Son {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}, He {God the Father} says to Him, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever (to the ages of the ages), and the scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of absolute righteousness (of justice and straightforwardness). AMP

I also believe there is an ETERNAL Throne shared in the Third Heaven by BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ that has water flowing out from it. God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ will also give their light to God’s Kingdom in the Third Heaven. This ETERNAL Throne indicates to me that BOTH the Father and the Son have forms that are comfortable when seated:

Revelation 22:1, 5 THEN HE  {the angel} showed me the river whose waters give life, sparkling like crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 5 And there shall be no more night; they have no need for lamplight or sunlight, for the Lord God will illuminate them and be their light, and they shall reign [as kings] forever and ever (through the eternities of the eternities). AMP

Who gives God’s Kingdom in the Third Heaven Its light? God the Father:

1 John 1:5 And this is the message [the message of promise] which we have heard from Him and now are reporting to you: God is Light, and there is no darkness in Him at all [no, not in any way]. AMP

And Jesus Christ gives Light to the universe and the Third Heaven:

John 8:12 Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said I am the Light of the world {Greek Kosmas – the whole universe}. He who follows Me will not be walking in the dark, but will have the Light which is Life. AMP

God the Holy Spirit also gives LIGHT but in an inner way:

Daniel 5:14 I have heard of you, that the Spirit of the holy God [or gods] is in you and that light {/illumination of} and understanding and superior wisdom are found in you {Sound mind – 2 Timothy 1:7 NKJV – of Christ – 1 Corinthians 2:16}. AMP

Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit (the effect, the product) of the Light or the Spirit [consists] in every form of kindly goodness, uprightness of heart, and trueness of life. AMP

God the Holy Spirit does NOT have a Throne because He is the only One Who is 100% Spirit and able to be everywhere at once because He is Omnipresent.

 

CHAPTER 2 – The ERA BEFORE the Book of Genesis.

This ERA or period BEFORE creation and time when there was ONLY the Godhead living in His Kingdom in the Third Heaven. This is where and when God the Father did all of His planning for His total creation including the angels and mankind and their/our salvation. I do not believe we give the redeemed angels enough credit for their ministry and service to us redeemed Saints! What did King David know about this ERA? What did God the Father know about us redeemed during this ERA?:

Psalms 139:16 {King David talking to God about His plans for him.} Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book {of Life} all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took place, when yet there was none of them. AMP

Ephesians 1:4 Even as [in His love] He {God the Father} chose us {as His redeemed sinners} [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless {sinless} in His sight, even above reproach {blame}, before Him in love {These characteristics are a part of our restored redeemed Born Again “STANDARD” from sinless Adam – 2 Corinthians 5:17.}. AMP

Hebrews 1:14 Are not the {redeemed} angels all ministering spirits (servants) sent out in the service [of God for the assistance] of those who are to inherit salvation? AMP

Jesus’ own testimony confirms Himself as God/Man:

John 8:23 He {Jesus as a Man} said to them {His listeners}, You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world (of this earthly order); I am not of this world {because I live in the Third Heaven in My Father’s Kingdom as God/Man.}. AMP

Jesus confirmed His testimony from John 8:23 – I am from above, I am not of this world – then proved His ETERNAL physical characteristics as a man by His physical descension and ascension BACK and FORTH from the Third Heaven to the earth:

Acts 1:9-11 And when He {Jesus} had said this, even as they were looking [at Him {as a Man}], He was caught up, and a cloud received and carried Him away out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing intently into heaven as He went, behold, two men [dressed] in white robes suddenly stood beside them, 11 Who said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing into heaven? This same Jesus {Son of God/Man}, Who was {physically} caught away and lifted up from among you into heaven, will return in [just] the same {as a physical man} way in which you saw Him go into heaven. AMP

We have more testimony from Jesus telling us about His descending and ascending back and forth from the Third Heaven to the earth as a Man throughout history. Watch Jesus’ use of capitalized human male pronouns as He testifies about Himself:

John 3:13 {Jesus speaking} And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven — the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in {the Third} heaven. AMP

John 16:28 {Jesus speaking} I came out from the Father {Who dwells in the Third Heaven} and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and going {back} to the Father {and to Our Kingdom in the Third Heaven. AMP

John 17:5 {Jesus praying} And now, Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to such majesty and honor in Your presence as I had with You before the world existed. AMP

John 17:24 {Jesus still praying} Father, I desire that they also whom You have entrusted to Me [as Your gift to Me] may be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory, which You have given Me [Your love gift to Me]; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. AMP

John gave more testimony about Jesus:

Revelation 1:10-18 I was in the Spirit [rapt in His power] on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a great voice {God the Son/God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} like the calling of a war trumpet, 11 Saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Write promptly what you see (your vision) in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia — to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.

12 Then I turned to see [whose was] the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 And in the midst of the lampstands [One] like a Son of Man {Jesus Christ}, clothed with a robe which reached to His feet and with a girdle of gold about His breast.  [Dan 7:13; 10:5.] 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, [as white] as snow, and His eyes [flashed] like a flame of fire.  [Dan 7:9.] 15 His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.  [Dan 10:6.] 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth there came forth a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full power at midday.  [Ex 34:29.]

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He laid His right hand on me and said, Do not be afraid! I am the First and the Last,  [Isa 44:6.] 18 And the Ever-living One [I am living in the eternity of the eternities]. I {Jesus Christ} died, but see, I am alive forevermore {as a Man}; and I possess the keys of death and Hades (the realm of the dead). AMP

I believe the human male pronouns help us to give identities to better know and understand God. BUT I believe that IF you are NOT connected to God the Holy Spirit, you will miss out on the knowledge of God the Son of Man Jesus Christ:

John 16:14 He {God the Holy Spirit} will honor and glorify Me {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}, because He will take of (receive, draw upon) what is Mine and will reveal (declare, disclose, transmit) it to you {us the redeemed}. AMP

PLEASE read Genesis chapter 18 for a Christophany of Jesus talking with Abraham and Sarah and the translators capitalization of male pronouns.

What is the significance of the use of capitalized male pronouns when applied to the physical personification of the historical Jesus Christ in BOTH the Old and New Testament? Many Christians believe this helps us to see Jesus Christ’s  humanity throughout history.

As I studied the use of capitalized male pronouns for God, I found that I opened a “can of worms.” Apparently there are NO set rules for capitalization of pronouns for God! But to me, capitalization shows Deity and my respect for Them. I consider these pronouns worthy of capitalization – I, Me, My, He, His, Him, You, and Your.

I will now stop highlighting the male pronouns that I believe give BOTH Jesus AND His Father Their human nature from BOTH the Old Testament and the New Testament where Jesus is speaking about Himself or His Father.

I have not said much about God the Holy Spirit Who I truly believe is the ONLY One of the Godhead that is 100% Spirit. What does this mean? As Spirit He is  OMNIPRESENT – able to be everywhere at once. He should be referred to as neuter and is occasionally referred to as IT:

Numbers 11:17 And I will come down and talk with you there; and I will take of the Spirit which is upon you and will put It upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you may not have to bear it yourself alone. AMP

Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him and put It upon the seventy elders; and when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied [sounding forth the praises of God and declaring His will]. Then they did so no more.  [Num 11:29.] AMP

I really do NOT see any reason to continue on – there is so much more Scriptural evidence and proof that Jesus Christ is ETERNALLY God/Man, but I pray this reaches many of those who are confused about the externality of BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ, and their correct places in history!

We MUST really know MORE about God AND we MUST know Him BETTER!!!

 

CHAPTER 3 – Continuation of the ERA Before Creation and Time {Before The Book of Genesis}:

I am going to continue with Who and What I believe Jesus Christ has always been in the ERA BEFORE creation and time began {the Book of Genesis}. To me, the following Scripture puts the members of the Godhead in perspective. The Amplified Bible has a good translation of John 1:1-2 which I have embellished with my remarks {}:

John 1:1-2 IN THE beginning {In the eternal ERA} [before all time] was the Word (the man Christ), and the Word was with God {the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit}, and the Word {Jesus Christ} was God {as the Son of Man} Himself.  [Isa 9:6.] 2 He {God the Son AND God the son of Man Jesus Christ} was present originally with God {the Father and God the Holy Spirit making up the Godhead}. AMP

To me, the Godhead is very discernable by Their individual and personal ministries. Look up these prepositions in a dictionary to see if I used them correctly. From:

Romans 11:36 {I believe the following are the correct meanings for the following Bolded and Underlined prepositions} For from {#1 the originator/ planner/architect} Him {God the Father} and through {#2 from the beginning to the end Him {Jesus Christ as the General Contractor/Master Builder/Creator} God the Son/God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} and to {#3 the One Who occupies all things because He is Omnipresent} Him {God the Holy Spirit} are all things. [For all things originate with Him and come from Him {God the Father}; all things live through Him {God the Son/Son of Man and God the Holy Spirit}, and all things center in and tend to consummate and to end in Him {because God the Holy Spirit is Omnipresent}.] To Him be glory forever! Amen (so be it). AMP

Perhaps it possibly could have been billions of years ago during this ERA when God the Father preplanned, foreordained, and predestined ALL aspects of His creation including the angels and their redemption and man and our redemption. Can you fathom that God made His plans EONS ago – BEFORE creation and time? This is God indwelling ETERNITY during this ERA before the Book of Genesis took place:

Psalms 139:16 {King David talking to God the Father} Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book {of Life} all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them. AMP

Ephesians 1:4 {When did these verses happen?} Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love {These characteristics are part of our NEW Born Again “STANDARD” – 2 Corinthians 5:17}. AMP

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts and plans that I have for you, {From your conception down through the ages.} says the Lord, thoughts and plans for welfare and peace and not for evil, to give you hope in your final outcome. AMP

• Titus 1:2 [Resting] in the hope of eternal life, [life] which the ever truthful God Who cannot deceive promised {when?} before the world or the ages of time began. AMP

CHAPTER 4 – What Are Some of the Amenities {features} Found in the Third Heaven During this ERA?

We know that God the Father’s book of Life was written by Him in this ERA:

Psalms 139:16 {King David praying to God} Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book {of Life} all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them. AMP

I believe there are other books/scrolls that describe God’s creation as a whole.

These include three types of books mentioned in the Old Testament and early non-canonical Jewish and Christian literature: 1) The {Lamb’s} Book of Life, which {I believe} records the names of the righteous {Saved Saints}; 2) the Book of Deeds, which catalogues people’s good and bad works; and 3) the Book of Destiny {God the Father’s Book of Life}, which records the history of the world and/or the destinies {plans} of people {whose plans God made for them EONS} before their birth (quoted in Dictionary of Bible Prophecy and End Times).

AGAIN, I MUST REMIND you to apply from the Scriptures of Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews13:8 that God the Father and Jesus Christ as God the Son/God Son of Man have always been eternally the SAME!

Let’s continue with the amenities found in the Third Heaven in the ERA BEFORE creation and time to when there was just the eternal Godhead living in His Kingdom there.

We know the Godhead is ETERNAL, They have no beginning nor end:

Isaiah 57:15a For thus says the high and lofty One — He Who inhabits eternity, Whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, AMP

Again, the Godhead is further described in John 1:1-2:

John 1:1-2 IN THE beginning {In the eternal ERA} where there is no beginning nor time nor end [before all time] was the Word {God the Son of Man Jesus} (Christ), and the Word was with God {the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit}, and the Word {Christ} was God Himself.  [Isa 9:6.] 2 He {God the Son AND Son of Man Jesus Christ} was present originally with God {the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit making up the Godhead}. AMP

It was during this ERA that God the Father gave Jesus Christ His authority as Creator:

Hebrews 1:2 [But] in the last of these days He {God the Father} has spoken to us in [the person of a] {God the} Son{/Son of Man Jesus Christ}, Whom {in the ERA BEFORE TIME} He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order] {at the beginning of creation – The Book of Genesis}. AMP

• John 1:3 All things were made and came into existence through Him {God the Son/Son of Man Jesus Christ}; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. AMP
• Colossians 1:16 For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him. AMP

It was also during this ERA that God the Father gave Jesus Christ His ministry as Savior {Ephesians 1:4}:

John 3:16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world {Greek word “kosmos which means the universe”} that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. AMP

ü Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in and through no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by and in which we must be saved. AMP

And finally, God gave Jesus Christ complete authority to judge everyone during this period in the ERA BEFORE creation:

John 5:22 Even the Father judges no one, for He has given all judgment (the last judgment {White Throne Judgment} and the whole business of judging) entirely into the hands of the Son, AMP

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear and be revealed as we are before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive [his pay] according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil [considering what his purpose and motive have been, and what he has achieved, been busy with, and given himself and his attention to accomplishing]. AMP

 

CHAPTER 5 – Eden the Eternal Garden of God Existed in the Third Heaven During this ERA Supplying Sustenance, Oxygen, and Great Beauty, and Still Exists there “TODAY.”

We now come to Eden the eternal Garden of God which I believe is located in and continues to supply the occupants of the Third Heaven with sustenance, oxygen, fragrance, and great beauty, and I believe it still exists!

Ezekiel 31:8-9 The cedars in {Eden} the garden of God could not hide or rival it; the cypress trees did not have boughs like it and the plane trees did not have branches like it, nor was any tree in {Eden} the garden of God like it in its beauty. 9 I made it beautiful with the multitude of its branches, so that all the trees of Eden that were in the garden of God envied it. AMP

Eden the Garden of God contains God’s eternal Throne which waters the Garden with God Himself supplying its light:

Revelation 22:1, 5 THEN HE showed me the river whose waters give life, sparkling like crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

5 And there shall be no more night; they have no need for lamplight or sunlight, for the Lord God will illuminate them and be their light, and they shall reign [as kings] forever and ever (through the eternities of the eternities). AMP

God and Jesus supply the light for Eden the Garden of God. I believe that Eden the Garden of God provides physical sustenance for BOTH God the Father AND God the Son of Man to partake. It also produces oxygen for the atmosphere of the Third Heaven and for the Father and Son to breathe. It also produces much physical beauty and fragrance for God in the Third Heaven. I believe that God’s Kingdom in the Third Heaven with Its amenities is beautiful beyond description!

 

CONCLUSION to PART I – “A Core Salvation Issue.”

Are these erroneous beliefs in the eternality of BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ a “core salvation issue?”

As I studied and researched this paper the question became, “Are these erroneous beliefs in the TIMELESSNESS/ETERNALITY of BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ a core salvation issue?”  By “core” I mean “This belief MUST have a basic or fundamental place in our faith!” I believe that the Christian cults who do NOT believe that Jesus Christ is God is automatically ETERNALLY condemned to Hell just for that error in their faith {John 8:24} even if they called on Him to be their savior {Romans 10:13}. If that be the case, what is the difference between those who do NOT believe Jesus to be God and those who do NOT believe Jesus Christ to be eternally Man? I am NOT a theologian, BUT I am a Bible teacher, I believe the Bible is very clear on this issue! Not ALL of us Christians who hold different views on the eternality of God the Father and of God the Son of Man are going to be judged as being CORRECT! SOMEONE HAS TO BE WRONG!!! And the judgment of those who are wrong is NOT going to be to one’s liking i.e. one’s SALVATION is in trouble!!!

John 8:24 He {Jesus talking} 24 That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be — if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins. AMP

To me whatever characteristics that Jesus was when He lived here on earth some 2000 years ago, He has ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE!!! Why? Because He is ETERNALLY GOD/MAN!!!

John 10:33 The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You {Jesus} for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. AMP

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and according to that law He should die, because He {God the Son of Man} has claimed and made Himself out to be the Son of God. AMP

Again, Who did Jesus Christ claim to Be?

John 8:56-58 {Jesus speaking} Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope and prospect of seeing My day (My incarnation{/personification}); and he did see it and was delighted.  [Heb 11:13.] 57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham? 58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM.  [Ex 3:14.] AMP

• Exodus 3:14 And God {the Father} said to Moses, I AM WHO I AMand WHAT I AM, and I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE; and He said, You shall say this to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you!  AMP

PART II – The Ministry of God the Son of Man From the Foundation of the World.

 

CHAPTER 1 – God Son of Man’s Ministry from the Foundation of the World:

Let’s study the ETERNAL Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God Who was slain from the foundation {or start} of the world {creation}:
John 1:29-36 The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world! [Ex 12:3; Isa 53:7.] 30 This is He of Whom I said, After me comes a Man Who has priority over me [Who takes rank above me] because He was before me and existed before I did {as God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}. 31 And I did not know Him and did not recognize Him [myself]; but it is in order that He should be made manifest and be revealed to Israel [be brought out where we can see Him] that I came baptizing in (with) water. 32 John gave further evidence, saying, I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and it dwelt on Him [never to depart]. 33 And I did not know Him nor recognize Him, but He Who sent me to baptize in (with) water said to me, Upon Him Whom you shall see the Spirit descend and remain, that One is He Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. 34 And I have seen [that happen — I actually did see it] and my testimony is that this is the Son of God! 35 Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 And he looked at Jesus as He walked along, and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God! AMP
John 1:15 John testified about Him {the Son of Man Jesus Christ} and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did {as God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.] AMP

 

CHAPTER 2 – The Old Testament Ministry of Jesus Christ:

I believe we can start the Old Testament ministry of Jesus Christ as The Lamb of God Who was slain from the foundation of the world. Who is the Lamb of God? Other than sinful man who else was He slain for? Following is John’s testimony for Jesus being a MAN and SON OF GOD!:
John 1:29-36 The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world! [Ex 12:3; Isa 53:7.] 30 This is He of Whom I said, After me comes a Man Who has priority over me [Who takes rank above me] because He was before me and existed before I did {as God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}. 31 And I did not know Him and did not recognize Him [myself]; but it is in order that He should be made manifest and be revealed to Israel [be brought out where we can see Him] that I came baptizing in (with) water. 32 John gave further evidence, saying, I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and it dwelt on Him [never to depart]. 33 And I did not know Him nor recognize Him, but He Who sent me to baptize in (with) water said to me, Upon Him Whom you shall see the Spirit descend and remain, that One is He Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. 34 And I have seen [that happen — I actually did see it] and my testimony is that this is the Son of God! 35 Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 And he looked at Jesus as He walked along, and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God! AMP
John 1:15 John testified about Him {the Son of Man Jesus Christ} and cried out, This was He of Whom I said, He Who comes after me has priority over me, for He was before me. [He takes rank above me, for He existed before I did {as God the Son of Man Jesus Christ}. He has advanced before me, because He is my Chief.] AMP

This Scripture declares Jesus Christ as the Lamb being slain from the beginning of creation when ONLY the angels existed:
Revelation 13:8 And all the inhabitants of the earth will fall down in adoration and pay him homage, everyone whose name has not been recorded in the Book of Life of the Lamb that was slain [in sacrifice] {for whom – the fallen angels and from when?} from the foundation of the world. AMP

Who was He Jesus slain from the foundation of the world for? I believe the following texts are veiled texts implying this to be sinful Lucifer. They are veiled in that they name Kings of nations, but I believe they disclose the mind set and heart of Lucifer:
Isaiah 14:12-18 How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning {Lucifer}! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!] 13 And you {Lucifer} said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost north. 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
Ezekiel 28:12-18 Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: You {Lucifer} are the full measure and pattern of exactness [giving the finishing touch to all that constitutes completeness], full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the carnelian, topaz, jasper, chrysolite, beryl, onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and your settings and your sockets and engravings were wrought in gold. On the day that you were created they were prepared. [Gen 3:14,15; Isa 14:12-15; Matt 16:23.]
14 You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire {on some of the newly formed planets} [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai]. [Ex 24:10.] 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you. 16 Through the abundance of your commerce you were filled with lawlessness and violence, and you sinned; therefore I cast you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Your heart was proud and lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I lay you before kings, that they might gaze at you. 18 You have profaned your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities and the enormity of your guilt, by the unrighteousness of your trade. Therefore I have brought forth a fire from your midst; it has consumed you, and I have reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who looked at you. AMP

There are TWO saved angels who share their testimonies of faith in our Savior – THE Lamb Jesus Christ. Again, I ask you “when did this happen?” My answer “from the beginning of creation:”
Revelation 19:9-10 Then [the angel] said to me {John}, Write this down: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who are summoned (invited, called) to the marriage supper of the Lamb {Apparently God’s redeemed angels will be summoned to the marriage supper.}. And he said to me [further], These are the true words (the genuine and exact declarations) of God. 10 Then I fell prostrate at his feet to worship (to pay divine honors) to him, but he [restrained me] and said, Refrain! [You must not do that!] I am [only] another servant with you and your brethren who have [accepted and hold] the testimony borne by {the Man} Jesus. Worship God! For the substance (essence) of the truth revealed by Jesus is the spirit of all prophecy [the vital breath, the inspiration of all inspired preaching and interpretation of the divine will and purpose, including both mine and yours]. AMP Following is the second angel’s testimony:
Revelation 22:8-9 And I, John, am he who heard and witnessed these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell prostrate before the feet of the messenger (angel) who showed them to me, to worship him. 9 But he said to me, Refrain! [You must not do that!] I am [only] a fellow servant along with yourself and with your brethren the prophets and with those who are mindful of and practice [the truths contained in] the messages of this book. Worship God! AMP

 

CHAPTER 3 – Identifying the Appearances of God the Son of Man Jesus Christ in the Old Testament:

I believe there are numerous appearances of God The Son of Man Jesus Christ to selected humans on earth in the Old Testament AFTER creation. We MUST remember that NO man has ever seen God the Father except God the Son of Man so I believe these appearances of God to man in the Old Testament HAVE to be God The Son of Man Jesus Christ:
John 1:18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Prov 8:30.] AMP
Proverbs 8:30 Then I [Wisdom] {Jesus Christ} was beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always, [Matt 3:17; John 1:2,18.] AMP
1 Corinthians 1:24 But to those who are called, whether Jew or Greek (Gentile), Christ [is] the Power of God and the Wisdom of God. AMP {Also see 1 Corinthians 1:30.}

There are two terms given to the human appearances of God the Son of Man in the Old Testament. The first term is theophanies. What is meant by theophanies? A theophany is the combination of two Greek compounds. Theos (God, god) and phainein (to appear). A theophany, then, is an appearance of God to human beings. A theophany is typically for the purpose of revealing something about the character of God. When God appears, He does so for a purpose. The term itself does not appear in Scripture, but the concept appears throughout.

The second term is Christophanies. It is the manifestation of God that is tangible {recognizable} to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period {BUT NO ONE has EVER SEEN God the Father BUT the Son – John 1:18} often, but not always, in human form. Some would also include in this term Christophanies (preincarnate appearances of Christ) and angelophanies (appearances of angels). In the latter category are found the appearances of the angel of the Lord, which some have taken to be Christophanies, reasoning that since the angel of the Lord speaks for God in the first person (Gen 16:10) and the human addressed often attributes the experience to God directly (Gen 16:13), the angel must therefore be the Lord or the preincarnate Christ. Yet, though the angel is clearly identified with the Lord, he is distinguished from him (he is called “angel.”)
There are over 50 possible theophanies/Christophanies recorded throughout the Old Testament, and in the prophets. The incarnate God the Son of Man Jesus Christ appeared to man in the following partial list – Abraham – Genesis 18:1-15; Jacob – Genesis 32:24-30; as the Angel of the Lord – Exodus 3:2-10; to Balaam – Numbers 22:22-35; to Joshua – Joshua 5:13-15; to Manoa and his wife – Judges 13; and to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego – Daniel 3:16-28.
I believe these theophanies/Christophanies had to include Jesus as God/Man Who was transported back and forth from heaven to earth:
Let’s let Jesus’ own testimony confirm Himself as God/Man:
John 8:23 He {Jesus as a Man} said to them {His listeners}, You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world (of this earthly order); I am not of this world {because I live in the Third Heaven in My Father’s Kingdom as God/Man.}. AMP

Jesus confirmed His testimony from John 8:23 – I am from above, I am not of this world – then proved His ETERNAL physical characteristics as a man by His physical descension and ascension BACK and FORTH from the Third Heaven to the earth:
Acts 1:9-11 And when He {Jesus} had said this, even as they were looking [at Him {as a Man}], He was caught up, and a cloud received and carried Him away out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing intently into heaven as He went, behold, two men [dressed] in white robes suddenly stood beside them, 11 Who said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing into heaven? This same Jesus {God Son of God/Man}, Who was {physically} caught away and lifted up from among you into heaven, will return in [just] the same {as a physical man} way in which you saw Him go into heaven. AMP

We have more testimony from Jesus telling us about His descending and ascending from the Third Heaven to the earth as God/Man throughout history. Watch Jesus’ use of capitalized human male pronouns as He testifies about Himself:
John 3:13 {Jesus speaking} And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven — the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in {Third} heaven. AMP
John 16:28 {Jesus speaking} I came out from the Father {Who dwells in the Third Heaven} and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and going {back} to the Father {and Our Kingdom in the Third Heaven.}. AMP
John 17:5 {Jesus praying} And now, Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to such majesty and honor in Your presence as I had with You before the world existed. AMP
John 17:24 {Jesus still praying} Father, I desire that they also whom You have entrusted to Me [as Your gift to Me] may be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory, which You have given Me [Your love gift to Me]; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. AMP

 

CHAPTER 4 – The CREATION of Original Created Sinless Adam:

Depending on how you view Christ as our creator will determine your view of the creation of original sinless Adam. Scripture tells us that man was made in the image and likeness of God. We MUST remember that God the Son Who is also God the Son of Man Jesus Christ has BOTH a spiritual and a physical nature. Look what happens when I put these two natures into created original sinless Adam:
Genesis 1:26a-27 God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our {spiritual} image, after Our {physical} likeness, [Ps 104:30; Heb 1:2; 11:3.] 27 So God created man in His own image, in the {spiritual} image and {physical} likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them. [Col 3:9,10; James 3:8,9.] AMP

I believe created original sinless Adam was made like God the Father, God the Son, God the Son of Man Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit! When us redeemed sinners are truly “Born Again,” we are restored to original sinless Adam’s “STANDARD” with the COMPLETE Godhead living in us.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own, AMP
John 14:23 Jesus answered, If a person [really] loves Me, he will keep My word [obey My teaching]; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (abode, special dwelling place) with him. AMP

I believe that we as truly “Born Again” Saints have the complete Godhead living in us! If we would take the time to truly know God, and smell the fragrance of His blessings and anointing, we would understand we are of the same “STANARD” as original created Adam!!! I believe we as “Born Again” Saints are AWESOME CREATURES BEYOND DESCRIPTION!!! Let’s be thankful to God and live that way!!!

 

CHAPTER 5 – The Garden of Eden on Earth:

The Garden of Eden was located on the earth during the time when Jesus walked and talked with Adam and Eve:
Genesis 2:15 And the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden {on the earth} to tend and guard and keep it. AMP
Genesis 3:8 And they {Adam and Eve} heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. AMP

I believe Jesus ate some of His nourishment here on earth from the Garden of Eden. This Garden has disappeared from on the earth, but I believe it will be restored when its time comes.

 

CHAPTER 6 – Jesus physically Born of Mary:

Matthew 1:21 She {Mary, the angel explaining to Joseph} will bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus [the Greek form of the Hebrew Joshua, which means Savior], for He will save His people from their sins [that is, prevent them from failing and missing the true end and scope of life, which is God]. AMP

The story of John Jesus’ cousin being physically older than Jesus by six months:
Luke 1:39-44 And at that time Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country to a town of Judah, 40 And she went to the house of Zachariah and, entering it, saluted Elizabeth. 41 And it occurred that when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting {Elizabeth SOMEHOW KNEW that Mary was pregnant with Jesus}, the baby {John} leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud cry, and then exclaimed, Blessed (favored of God) above all other women are you! And blessed (favored of God) is the Fruit of your womb! 43 And how [have I deserved that this honor should] be granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, the instant the sound of your salutation reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. AMP

 

CHAPTER 7 – Who did Jesus Claim to be 2000 years ago?

Then those who was with Him asked the question that we are still asking and seeking answers for “TODAY:”
John 8:25 Then they said to Him, Who are You anyway? Jesus replied, [Why do I even speak to you!] I am exactly what I have been telling you from the first. AMP

Again, what did Jesus tell them/us about Himself?:
John 8:23 He said to them, You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world (of this earthly order); I am not of this world {but of Our Kingdom in the Third Heaven}. AMP

Did Jesus’ disciples KNOW who He truly was?
1 John 1:1-4 [WE {Christ’s disciples} ARE writing] about the Word of Life {God the Son of Man Jesus Christ – John 1:1} [in] Him Who existed from the beginning, Whom we have heard, Whom we have seen with our [own] eyes, Whom we have gazed upon [for ourselves] and have touched with our [own] hands. 2 And the Life [an aspect of His being] was revealed (made manifest, demonstrated), and we saw [as eyewitnesses] and are testifying to and declare to you the Life, the eternal Life [in Him] Who already existed with the Father and Who [actually] was made visible (was revealed) to us [His followers].
3 What we have seen and [ourselves] heard, we are also telling you, so that you too may realize and enjoy fellowship as partners and partakers with us. And [this] fellowship that we have [which is a distinguishing mark of Christians] is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). 4 And we are now writing these things to you so that our joy [in seeing you included] may be full [and your joy may be complete]. AMP
Matthew 16:13, 16 Now when Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, Who do people say that the Son of Man is? 16 Simon Peter replied, You are the {God the Son of Man Jesus} Christ, the Son of the living God. AMP

Matthew16:17 is not only important for Peter but for us also. Who revealed this to Peter? Who or what is God revealing to YOU?
Matthew 16:17 Then Jesus answered him, Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. For flesh and blood [men] have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven. AMP

AGAIN, I MUST REMIND YOU of the TWO main foundational Scriptures that we MUST NOT FORGET – GOD IS UNCHANGING and Jesus Christ Who is God/Man does NOT CHANGE EITHER!:
Malachi 3:6a For I am the Lord, I do not change; … AMP
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ (the Messiah) {God/Man} is [always] the same, yesterday, today, [yes] and forever (to the ages). AMP

I again MUST use the text from Philippians 2 which explains completely what Jesus Christ did to accomplish His Father’s plans and will for Him, and the true believer’s response to God at our judgment:
Philippians 2:5-11 Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:] 6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, 7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. 8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!
9 Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, 10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. AMP

Scripture testifies that Jesus Who was absolutely God became like a Man in every respect and for what purpose?:
Hebrews 2:17 So it is evident that it was essential that He be made like His brethren in every respect, in order that He might become a merciful (sympathetic) and faithful High Priest in the things related to God, to make atonement and propitiation for the people’s sins. AMP
Hebrews 2:14 Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to naught and make of no effect him who had the power of death — that is, the devil — AMP

Jesus by His own actions and Words testified and showed that He was God/Man:
John 5:18 This made the Jews more determined than ever to kill Him [to do away with Him]; because He not only was breaking (weakening, violating) the Sabbath, but He actually was speaking of God as being [in a special sense] His own Father, making Himself equal [putting Himself on a level] with God. AMP
John 10:33 The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You {Jesus} for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. AMP
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and according to that law He should die, because He {the Son of Man} has claimed and made Himself out to be the Son of God. AMP
Luke 4:30 But passing through their midst {unnoticed}, He {Jesus} went on His way {Think about this – How did He do that? As God in Spirit.}. AMP
John 10:30 {Jesus is talking} I and the Father are One. AMP
John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father? AMP

 

CHAPTER 8 – Jesus Christ Physically Ate With Numerous People BEFORE His Death:

Mark 2:15 And as Jesus, together with His disciples, sat at table in his [Levi’s] house, many tax collectors and persons [definitely stained] with sin were dining with Him, for there were many who walked the same road (followed) with Him. AMP

Jesus physically ate with His disciples AFTER His resurrection:
Luke 24:41-43 And while [since] they {Jesus’ disciples} still could not believe it for sheer joy and marveled, He said to them, Have you anything here to eat? 42 They gave Him a piece of broiled fish, 43 And He took [it] and ate [it] before them. AMP

There is going to be a “marriage supper” of the resurrected Saints possibly between the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Have you ever thought about how much food it will take to feed millions of redeemed Saints? Where is it coming from?
Revelation 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and shout for joy [exulting and triumphant]! Let us celebrate and ascribe to Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb [at last] has come, and His bride has prepared herself. [Ps 118:24.] 8 She has been permitted to dress in fine (radiant) linen, dazzling and white — for the fine linen is (signifies, represents) the righteousness (the upright, just, and godly living, deeds, and conduct, and right standing with God) of the saints (God’s holy people). AMP

Where will God get ALL of the food for this Marriage Supper? I believe Eden the Garden of God AND the Garden of Eden will be restored and can and will be used to feed the Saints. I do not know whether you ever thought about those who are in Hell for all of eternity – do they eat? Do we eat? Where does ALL of the food come from? Who will prepare this food daily? Lots of unanswered questions!!!

 

SUMMARY– Proving #1, #2, and #3 Using Scripture.

In my INTRODUCTION of this paper, I stated that:
#1 that He {Jesus Christ} has always ETERNALLY been God/Man,
#2 He recognized and claimed Himself to be ETERNALLY GOD/MAN, and
#3 that Scripture claims Him to be God/Man. Using the Bible, did I prove these three assertions in this paper? YES I DID!!!

I believe #1 that He {Jesus Christ} has always ETERNALLY been God/Man has been easily proven using this text:
John 1:1-2 IN THE beginning {in the eternal ERA} [before all time] was the Word (the man Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God {the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit}, and the Word {the Son of Man Jesus Christ} was God Himself. [Isa 9:6.] 2 He {God the Son AND God the Son of Man Jesus Christ} was present originally with God {the Father and God the Holy Spirit making up the Godhead}. AMP

#2 He recognized and claimed Himself to be ETERNALLY GOD/MAN:
John 10:33 The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. AMP

#3 that Scripture claims Him to be God/Man:
2 Peter 1:1 SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: AMP
Philippians 2:6-10 {Jesus Christ} Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, 7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! 9 Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, 10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, AMP

 

IN CONCLUSION TO THIS SYUDY – “A Core Salvation Issue?”

Are these erroneous beliefs in the eternality of BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ a “core salvation issue?”

Again as I studied and researched this paper the question became, “Are these erroneous beliefs in the TIMELESSNESS/ETERNALITY of BOTH God the Father and God the Son of Man Jesus Christ a core salvation issue?” By “core” I mean “This belief MUST have a basic or fundamental place in our faith!” I believe that the Christian cults and anyone else who does NOT believe that Jesus Christ is God is automatically ETERNALLY condemned to Hell just for that error in their about Jesus Christ {John 8:24}. If that be the case, what is the difference between those who do NOT believe Jesus to be God and those who do NOT believe Jesus Christ to be eternally Man? I am NOT a theologian, BIT I am a Bible teacher, I believe the Bible is very clear on this issue! Not ALL of us Christians who hold different views on the eternality of God the Father and of God the Son of Man are going to be judged as being CORRECT! SOMEONE HAS TO BE WRONG!!! And the judgment of those who are wrong is NOT going to be one’s liking i.e. one’s SALVATION is in trouble!!!
John 8:24 He {Jesus talking} 24 That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be — if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins. AMP

In accordance to the above Scriptures to me whatever characteristics that He was when He lived here on earth some 2000 years ago, He has ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE!!! Why? Because He is ETERNALLY GOD/MAN!!!
John 10:33 The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You {Jesus} for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. AMP
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and according to that law He should die, because He {God the Son of Man} has claimed and made Himself out to be the Son of God. AMP

Again, Who did Jesus Christ claim to Be?
John 8:56-58 {Jesus speaking} Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope and prospect of seeing My day (My incarnation{/personification}); and he did see it and was delighted. [Heb 11:13.] 57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham? 58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM. [Ex 3:14.] AMP
Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM and WHAT I AM, and I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE; and He said, You shall say this to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you! AMP

In accordance to the above Scriptures, to me whatever characteristics that He was when He lived here on earth some 2000 years ago, He has ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE!!! Why? Because He is ETERNALLY GOD/MAN!!!

 

IN CLOSING:

Over the course of a number of years, God the Holy Spirit has revealed to me some exciting insights {meat to chew on} into #1 the timelessness of Jesus Christ as God/Man, #2 the ERA BEFORE the Book of Genesis when there was just the Godhead in the Third Heaven with It’s amenities, #3 us as “Born Again” Saints being restored to created sinless Adam’s “STANDARD,” and #4 for me to use and share these insights as PART of God’s Glory with others!

For many years I have read the following verse which had little meaning to me until God the Holy Spirit began to provide me with sone MEAT from the Bible to chew on.
1 Corinthians 10:3-4 And all [of them] ate the same spiritual (supernaturally given) food, [Ex 16:4,35.] 4 And they all drank the same spiritual (supernaturally given) drink. For they drank from a spiritual Rock which followed them [produced by the sole power of God Himself without natural instrumentality], and the Rock was Christ. [Ex 17:6; Num 20:11.] AMP

I do not know how many more years I have left to live to “work out” my salvation, but these nuggets of knowledge have been very gratifying to me! From:
Philippians 2:12 {Paul admonishes us to} work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ). AMP

I pray this study has helped you to understand and realize the importance of knowing and having a personal relationship with God and in particular God the Son of Man Jesus Christ.

AMEN and AMEN!!!